Truth is inspiring, it is guarded by GOD, and will triumph over all opposition!

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie


There will be MANY who disagree. I understand this, whole-heartedly. And I bring this article forward fully understanding this, but it must be said. I believe Satan uses this argument as a source of reaping souls! Even if you believe otherwise….please give it your time.

Rapture long shot

This is an article by OMEGASHOCK.COM but I couldn’t have said it better so here goes…
I keep calling it a theory, but that’s just because I am trying to be polite. It’s more than a theory. It’s a lie – from Satan, the father of lies. He is using it to put you to sleep, so that you will NOT prepare for what he has planned for you.
Please, if I have to beg, I will. You MUST wake up. There is so little time left.


Starting With The Truth
When judging a lie, you must always start with the truth, and you will find it in the Bible. It’s really quite simple, as the truth often is, and it won’t require lots of verbal gymnastics to say what is… the truth.
Let me summarize the points first:
The Antichrist must come before the Rapture
The Tribulation must come before the Rapture
The Sun and Moon Must be Darkened before the Rapture
The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
Jesus Must Return before the Rapture
The Resurrection must happen just before the Rapture (or, at the same time)
There is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people
God promised that Christians would suffer
There IS a Place of Safety on this Earth
There IS A Safe Place If You Do Not Follow The Lie


That last one should concentrate your mind. All of the arguments that the pre-tribbers make are based upon the fact that God would never allow His people to suffer. Well, you won’t have to suffer if you pay attention and follow the truth, and not lies.
Following a lie will ALWAYS lead to suffering. And THAT is what the pre-tribbers are setting you up for. Do not follow the lies of Satan. Do NOT twist the Bible. You must get this right, or you will die.

Yes, it really is a life and death issue.

False Rapture

After the first series of disasters rolls by, we can argue the finer points of eschatology. Until then, make ready for the worst moment in human history. But, let’s get to proving the above points.
The Bible cannot lie. If you believe otherwise, please stop here. If you do not believe that the whole of the Bible is truth, there’s no hope for you.
So, if the Bible cannot lie, then each verse is a challenge to our theories.
We all have them. Some are right. Some are wrong. And, as you (hopefully) read your Bible, if you stumble across a verse that declares your theory wrong… well…
…it’s wrong, and you have to get it right.
Seriously, folks. If I tell you something, and the Bible disagrees with me… well, I’m wrong. It’s that simple.

The Bible is ALWAYS right. Always.
The Antichrist Must Come Before The Rapture



Paul reached out to the church in Thessalonica because they were thrown into turmoil over the idea of the Rapture. It appears that someone was telling them that they had missed it. Here is what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2:
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. – 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
The Antichrist MUST come before the Rapture. There is no other way that you can interpret this verse. None.
Unfortunately, pre-tribbers seek to twist this verse by saying that ‘falling away’ is The Rapture.
Really? Apostasy is the RAPTURE?



Here’s the Greek word that Paul used for ‘falling away’:
ἀποστασία – apostasia
That is NOT – and cannot be – the word for the Rapture. In another verse, apostasia was translated as forsake in Acts 21:21, when Paul was being accused of teaching apostasy, it was because they thought that he was telling people to forsake the Law of Moses.
Apostasia is NEVER used in ANY place in the Bible in reference to the Rapture. In fact, Paul already had a word that he uses for the rapture. It’s used in this phrase:
by our gathering together unto him
The Greek word used for gathering together is:
ἐπισυναγωγῆς – episynagōgēs
It really does just mean ‘gather together’.
The word that pre-tribbers like to use – rapture – comes from the Latin – rapturo. It’s a good word, and I use it because that’s what people understand. The Greek version of this word is:
ἁρπάζω – harpazó
It means to snatch away, or to take by force. And THAT is exactly what the Lord is going to do. He’s going to snatch us away. In fact, Paul uses much the same word in 1 Thessalonians 4:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:17


The word for shall be caught up is:

ἁρπαγησόμεθα – harpagēsometha

And, the root is – you guessed it – harpazo.


So, when a pretribber comes to you and tries to tell you that The Great Apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is actually the rapture, tell him that he’s lying. And then, tell him this:
The Antichrist Must Come Before The Rapture
To believe otherwise is to believe a lie. And, there is only one person who is the father of lies.
The Tribulation Must Come Before The Rapture


When Jesus spoke of the Last Days, the coming of the Antichrist and the Tribulation, He made zero mention of a pre-tribulation rapture. None. Zero. Zip.
You would think – if there WAS a pre-trib rapture – that Jesus would have mentioned it here. But, He didn’t. However, He DID say this:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. – Matthew 24:29-31
(See also Mark 13:24-27)


This is Jesus, our Lord and Savior, telling us that the Rapture MUST HAPPEN AFTER THE TRIBULATION!
Please, did you get that?
Period. End of Statement.
Is there any part of this that you did not understand?
The Sun and Moon Must be Darkened before the Rapture



This next point, how the Sun and Moon must be darkened before the Rapture, piggy-backs on top of the verse that I talked about, above. But, it’s worth talking about separately. Although, this time, I’ll use Mark 13:
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. – Mark 13:24-27
Please, everyone, there is NO WAY that you can see ANY pre-tribulation rapture here. The Sun and Moon must be darkened first, and the stars fall.


Then, and only then, will The Rapture happen.
The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
You saw me talk about harpazo, above. Well, this snatching away is not going to be some quiet event. In fact, Jesus descends from the sky with a shout. Here’s the specific passage:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

I have a question to ask you:

Does this sound like the pre-trib rapture that the pretribbers talk about?

Not to me.
Jesus Must Return before the Rapture

I have already shown you Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 above.

How does the Lord return?
Well, Jesus said that everyone would see Him return in the clouds with great power and glory. THEN He would send His angels to gather up His people from the Earth. This is His RETURN.


Does Matthew 24 or Mark 13 speak of a SECOND return?
Of course not. There is just one – THE RETURN.
Do we understand all that will happen at the time?
Probably not, but that shouldn’t keep us from accepting what our Lord and Savior told us.
The Rapture really does happen when Jesus returns.
The Resurrection Must Happen Just Before The Rapture


The pretribbers do their best to distort and explain away the evidence of a post-tribulation rapture, but they have an exceptionally tough time of it – when it comes to the resurrection. In fact, every time I raise this point, they begin attacking me personally, instead of answering the passage.
So, this passage is especially thorny for pretribbers:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
THAT is unquestionably a rapture passage. No one can question that, and the pretribbers don’t. But, it is also a resurrection passage.
How can you have a pre-tribulation rapture, if the resurrection must happen just before (or at the same time as) the Rapture?
The answer is that you can’t. You CANNOT have a pre-tribulation rapture, because the resurrection MUST happen at the same time as the rapture. And… there is only one of them for God’s people.
There Is Only One Resurrection For Those Who Are God’s People
The reason why there cannot be a pre-tribulation rapture is that there is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people. Only one.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. – Revelation 20:4-6
Those that go through the Tribulation WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!


Is there any other FIRST RESURRECTION?
Of course not, unless you want to twist the Bible.
Just to rub it in a little, here’s Jesus speaking in Luke:
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. – Luke 14:14
So, if you don’t make it in the First Resurrection, and are not in the Rapture, you will go to Hell.
Again, what happens just before (or at the same time as) the resurrection?
The Rapture.
God Promised That Christians Would Suffer
The reason why we are even having this debate is due to our desire to avoid suffering. We don’t even want to THINK about what the Antichrist will do to us during the Tribulation.
That is completely understandable, but it’s not an excuse to twist the words of God.
In fact, God promised us that we would suffer persecution and tribulation. I am mystified as to why the pretribbers think that we could avoid it. There are just too many verses that talk about this. Here are a couple:


Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. – 2 Timothy 3:12
And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. – Acts 14:21-22


I have a question to ask all of my pretribber friends:

With all the persecution that we have experienced over the past two thousand years, and are experiencing now, why do you think that we should be exempt from the persecution of the Antichrist?
Because THAT is what we are talking about. The pretribbers will tell you about how God isn’t going to pour out His wrath upon His people, but they are REALLY just interested in avoiding the Antichrist.
Well, if we haven’t been able to avoid the persecution of the communists/catholics/nazis/pagans, then we aren’t going to avoid the persecution of the Antichrist.
Well… actually …that’s not completely true.
There IS A Place Of Safety On This Earth
When God sent the ten plagues upon Egypt, He didn’t take them out of Egypt. But, He did provide them with a place that was free of these plagues. It was an area of Egypt called The Land of Goshen.
And, we can find the same idea in Revelation. According to the Book of Revelation, there is a place that will offer protection to God’s people, who flee the Antichrist:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. – Revelation 12:13-14
There IS a place of safety that will be prepared for God’s people. And, it will be a place that will keep them safe, until the end of the Tribulation.

Do I understand how that is possible?

No. No one does. But, that shouldn’t keep us from taking it on faith.


The problem is that you will not have the opportunity to be in a place of safety, if you allow yourself to twist the Bible.
Torturing The Bible

There is no verse in the Bible that talks about a pre-tribulation rapture. I’ve seen the evidence of these false teachers, and all that they can offer are verses that they have twisted out of shape.

As someone once said:
The Bible is like a person. If you torture it enough, you can get it to say anything.
God did not intend for you to torture the Bible. He meant for you to accept it. It is His words for you.
If you would not twist the words of those that you truly love on this Earth…
…why would you twist the words of God?


My suspicion is that many pretribbers don’t love God. It’s really that simple. [EDITOR: I don’t believe this part…I just think people are confused by Satan’s lies…I had to add this part to be clear.]
Conclusion – Your Choice
So, here is what we talked about:
The Antichrist must come before the Rapture
The Sun and Moon Must be Darkened before the Rapture
The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
Jesus Must Return before the Rapture
The Resurrection must happen just before the Rapture (or, at the same time)
There is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people
God promised that Christians would suffer
There IS a Place of Safety on this Earth


EDITOR NOTES: My only addition to this article is that I believe there will be a fake rapture! LET ME BE CLEAR…I believe there will be GOD’S Rapture, but a fake one will present itself first. Why? Because I believe works to deceive and we are repeatedly warned of this. Secondly, we must first go through the ‘fire’ because like gold…we are precious to GOD. But we must be cleansed to be received in heaven!

King James Bible
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

So, this is certainly my opinion. But, don’t you think we need to use discernment? Ask GOD for the Truth.

53 responses

  1. Kittii

    Virginia, you can’t cover this topic in one post with a few scriptures. It spans the entire book of the Bible. It can turn into a endless debate. I’m not really going to get in to debating scripture on your blog. I’ve seen and done that on Marianne’s. I’m not good at apologetics, but I know what I believe, because I almost lost it. I went through a study of the rapture (and it wasn’t sitting down in one sitting and deciding) so, I’m set. There’s no one who really debates on this blog except for “Just me” and that’s what I like about your blog. Christians are persecuted all over the world for their faith, why not American Christians? Why not now? Why can’t the United States go down? That’s not the Tribulation. All these man made weather wars, that’s not God or his Angels doing it. Just because there’s UFO’s and fallen angels in underground bases fooling people right now, that’s not the Tribulation either. It’s been going on since the beginning: the re-infiltration of the human race. When the Tribulation happens you will know it. I don’t believe I’m going to be here and I may even die before it happens. I’m not going to date set ever. A lot of pieces are in place and that’s why I keep my eye on Israel and the Jews. But that’s also why I warn others. We may suffer persecution before the Tribulation and I don’t want them to be fooled or to lose their faith because of the deception. Don’t mix up the different groups, don’t mix up (little) tribulations with “THE GREAT TRIBULATION”. I’m just about done blogging. I know I keep saying that. I’ve been warning others for 6 years. (about possible persecution and hard times, not the Tribulation) I will stop when I know I’m to stop blogging and I think after you posting this, that this is my last post. I don’t like the direction you’re heading and I don’t want to leave on a sour note. Thanks for letting me hijack the thread and never criticizing me. I really mean it. See you in heaven, on the new earth, during the millennium or in the rapture. ( Which ever you think happens first).

    August 13, 2014 at 4:52 PM

    • Linda

      NO!!! Kittii, Please don’t go!!! I love this site. And I love all the things you share also.

      August 13, 2014 at 8:19 PM

      • Kittii

        That’s very sweet. Thank you. I never get that!

        August 15, 2014 at 3:56 PM

    • Always appreciate your responses. Your welcome here always, anytime. I believe we should be able to discuss our thoughts and positions. This is part of being human but most people take it to the extreme….this is heartbreaking. I am working on something right now that explains that we as Believers are becoming ‘tired’ and I think this is spiritual. GOD knows this. So, don’t give up. Don’t go anywhere. We love you and appreciate you. Don’t get discouraged….love, V

      August 13, 2014 at 9:40 PM

    • liz

      i too belive in the pre rapture and i think your post tells it like it is

      August 14, 2014 at 8:14 AM

      • Kittii

        You said you believe in the pre-rapture, but you think whose post tells it like it is? Can’t be Virginia’s because she said she doesn’t believe in it. Pre-rapture: is that the same as Pre-trib? to you. I’m not understanding your comment.

        August 15, 2014 at 3:59 PM

    • Gary R. Sayers

      Hey, Kittii… I agree whole-heartedly on the Pre-trib position m’self… I’ve believed it for 40 years, I’ve never seen anything that led me to doubt it, including the exhaustive material posted above… I’m not a fool… I’ve done MY research… I admire Sis’ passion, and her committment to the mission God seems to have laid upon her heart… I don’t always agree… We are still just human beings, and our old nature remains ‘fallen’, in ‘inclination’ if not in actuality… FIRST we’re justified, THEN sanctified, FINALLY we get GLORIFIED… NOBODY knows the FINAL answer to this subject; Paul the Apostle told those in his care when referring to the ‘Rapture’ subject, “Behold, I tell you a MYSTERY…”..You’re also committed to your own posts, and BY GOLLY, YOU DO CARE!!… ‘Yours truly’ for one will be extremely sorry to see you go… I’m not gonna get ‘preachy’, but consider the times in which we live… Slewfoot’s working his butt-inski off to divide the church, to make us meet at some ‘O-K Corral’ of strife to debate our many ‘doctrinal divisions’ so we’ll just ‘kill each other off’ in conflict over some damn-fool thing over which we were never intended to divide or split apart… It gets ugly…
      —– God hates division, even more those who SEEK divide the faithful… The Word Of God is indeed a sword, but why do many of us use it to attack EACH OTHER?…That is not an accusation; merely an illustration– I’VE been just as guilty of that as any other.. But I say as your brother in the Lord that we BOTH need to stop, look & LISTEN before we ‘leap’ into anything that will scar or tarnish things already ‘in progress’ as to our relationships in the Body… Remember Jesus’ words: “If anyone wills to do HIS Will, he shall KNOW concerning the doctrine, whether it is from GOD or whether I speak on my own authority… He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the Glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him..”(Jn.7:17-18)
      —– Hope you’re readin’ this, too Sis… Take a moment in quiet prayer and consider it… You have too much to do, too many blogs ahead to be distracted even for a moment…
      I’m honest enough to tell you straight up that I disagree, yet I still love ya to pieces… Your work should be a JOY… May it ever be so… As long as I’m welcome here, I guess I’ll stick around… Matter o’ FACT, I loves ya BOTH… Shiver me timbers… God BLESS..

      August 15, 2014 at 11:28 AM

      • Kittii

        Scriptures where the word Tribulation is used: John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Mark 13:24, Revelation 7:14, Romans 8:35. There are different uses of the word. That’s why we study the Bible. If we could sit down and understand it in one sitting we wouldn’t need to study it. I like to know that others believe the same way I do, because I really believe this doctrine is severely being attacked and that’s just what the devil wants, for us to lose our hope. Nothing personal Virginia. But that is our hope. I don’t want division either. I get on fire when I think about how deceived everyone is with the media we have going on. It’s unbelievable with the access we have (re:9/11) to resources. Robin Willaims suicide is a good example of that. They aren’t telling the whole story. He had fame and fortune. Why would he commit suicide?????????????????

        August 15, 2014 at 3:13 PM

  2. Kittii

    One last video series before I say Au revoir, Hasta La Vista, Leitraot (Hebrew) LOL! I couldn’t resist. This is the move comprehensive video series I’ve seen yet. 50 video clips from a secular point of view. It’s a Christian’s You Tube Channel. He did the series on Ancient Knowledge. It’s listed on the list of 25 You Tube clips. I really recommend it. It explained to me how the Pyramids could possibly have been made. It’s not Hocus Pocus. It’s mathematical properties and the Angels who helped that have abilities we don’t.

    August 13, 2014 at 5:04 PM

  3. Cathy

    Thank you for this topic… many Christians are being lie’s being talk about on face book and I tried to explain to many that they will be right here when the antichrist appear..instead of them reading the Bible many told me they heard about my teaching…and don’t believe it. which explains why many are not on fire for Christ because they were taught instead of reading the word of GOD, that they will be rapture before tribulation, so therefore they don’t have to worry about what’s going on in the world. by this many are being fooled and they will blame YAHWEH and lose faith in his word, and it’s not the LORD fault it will be theirs. because of this lie I think that many will take the mark of the beast, thinking the LORD will understand and forgive them. those who have a CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH YAHWEH WILL BE THE ONES TO ESCAPE …when he calls you have to be ready and willing to drop everything and go.

    August 13, 2014 at 5:24 PM

  4. Cathy

    AS a child of the King you will be tried by fire..1 Peter 1 ;17 …these trials will show that your faith is genuine is being tested as fire test and purify gold.

    August 13, 2014 at 5:45 PM

  5. Kittii

    That You Tube is not the complete 50 parts. Here’s the 3 hours version. I like to be thorough, because I want to watch the whole thing.

    August 13, 2014 at 6:01 PM

  6. Kittii

    Here’s what convince me: Scripture. Not someone’s opinion.
    1. How It All Began

    2. Will Believers Know the Day?
    Week of Years
    “Abomination of Desolation”
    “In the Midst of the Week”
    “Forty-two Months”
    “Twelve Hundred Sixty Days”
    “A Thousand Two Hundred and Threescore Days”

    The Last Three and One-half Years
    The Last Forty-two Months
    The Last Twelve Hundred Sixty Days

    The Three-and-One-Half-Year Countdown
    The Forty-two-Month Countdown
    The Twelve-Hundred-Sixty-Day Countdown

    Objection Number 1: The Context of Matthew 24
    Objection Number 2: The Day is Unknown to Unbelievers Only
    Objection Number 3: What About the 1290 Days?
    Objection Number 4: The Time Is “Rounded Off.”
    Objection Number 5: The Days Are “Shortened.”
    Objection Number 6: Is the Abomination a Datable Event?
    Objection Number 7: The Abomination Is Past
    Objection Number 8: A Gap Before the Tribulation
    Objection Number 9: A Gap After the Tribulation
    Objection Number 10: They Can But Won’t
    “Only 1260 Days to Go.”

    Be Ready Now
    Don’t Throw Up Your Hands
    Icing on the Cake

    Gray-Haired Perspectives
    • What Does “Hour” Mean?
    • Except Those Days Be Shortened

    3. Who Will Populate the Millennium?
    Are they present-day Christians?
    Are they present-day non-Christians?
    Could they be people saved after the rapture?

    Attempt Number 1: Unbelievers Enter the Millennium
    Attempt Number 2: A Remnant of Israel Is Saved After the Tribulation
    Attempt Number 3: Ignore the Problem

    Gray-Haired Perspectives
    • The Kingdom and the Future
    • The 28-Day Challenge

    4. When Is the Wedding?

    Objection Number 1: The Post-Trib Rapture Is the Wedding
    Objection Number 2: It’s Only a Parable

    Objection Number 1: The Wife Is Readied on Earth
    Objection Number 2: The Marriage Is After the Tribulation
    Objection Number 3: The Time Is Reversed
    Objection Number 4: The Past Tense Is Not Past
    Objection Number 5: These Are Only Implications

    5. First Thessalonians: Salvation
    A Pre-trib Clue?
    The Rapture Described
    Of What Were They Ignorant?
    Another Pre-trib Clue?
    A New Revelation

    It’s Only Natural
    Where Did Paul Get His Revelation?
    Why Does Paul Speak of Comfort?

    The Feast of Trumpets
    Where is the Fulfillment?

    When Is the Day of the Lord?
    Not Appointed to Wrath
    Why Watch?
    What Does “Watch” Mean?
    How Do We Stay Awake?
    The Hope of Salvation
    The Context
    Conjunctions Are the Key
    The Thief and Surprise
    Questions and Answers About “Surprise”
    Looking or Living?
    Motivation for Living

    6. Second Thessalonians: Glory
    Is “The Falling Away” the Rapture?
    Is “The Falling Away” Apostasy?
    Simpler Is Better
    A Double Play on Words

    Did They Think They Missed the Rapture?
    Did They Think They Were in the Tribulation?
    Did They Think They Would Yet Experience the Tribulation?

    To Prove the Certainty of Destruction
    To Confirm the Destiny of the Persecutors
    For Correction and Comfort

    A Pre-Trib Clue?
    Why Is Work Commanded?

    The Old Testament and Christ’s Coming
    Why Are They Mingled?
    The New Testament and Second-Coming Terminology

    Our Hope Is Not Nearsighted
    My Big Moment

    Gray-Haired Perspective
    • A Stronger View of the Day of the Lord

    7. Revelation
    “Keep Thee from the Hour of Temptation.”

    “Keep Thee from the Hour of Temptation.”
    The Purpose of the Hour
    “All the World.”
    Contrast 2:10 and 3:10
    Other Prepositions?
    “As a Thief” (3:3; 16:15)

    Symbolism Used
    The Twenty-Four Elders

    “LEND ME YOUR EARS” (13:9)
    “FIRSTFRUITS” (14:4)
    THE HARVEST (14:14–20)

    Gray-Haired Perspectives
    • What is the Open Door Promised to the Church at Philadelphia?
    • Greek Prepositions and Revelation 3:10
    • The Church in Revelation
    • Twenty-Four Angels or Twenty-Four Men?
    • The Purpose of the Rapture
    • Church Project Suggestion

    8. Which Gathering First?
    Who Are the Tares?
    Is the Order Important?
    It’s Only a Parable

    Concerning the Rapture
    Concerning the Gathering
    Nothing Forbidden

    Gray-Haired Perspectives
    • Church? What Church?
    • Is Matthew 24:31 The Rapture?
    • Is John 14:3 The Rapture?

    9. Luke Seventeen
    “DAY” AND “DAYS”

    10. The Winepress
    HOW FAR?

    11. The Olivet Solution
    The Precedent
    The Clue

    The Fig Tree
    This Generation
    What About “Signs of the Times”?

    Question one, the flood victims
    Question two, Noah
    Question three, the stumper
    Surprised, But Safe

    Question: How Do I Separate the Double References?
    Question: How Does it Fit the Context?
    Question: Why Did Jesus Give Three Illustrations?
    Question: Do Other Gospels Contain Double Reference?
    Question: Can Christ Return at “Any Moment”?
    Question: Can Noah Apply to Church Saints?
    Question: Do Some Know When the Thief Comes?
    Question: Who Is the Servant?
    Question: Who Is the One Taken and the One Left?
    Question: If “No Man” Knows the Day, How Can Tribulation Saints Know the Day?
    Question: Why Did Jesus Not Come Right Out and Say So?


    Gray-Haired Perspectives
    • The Fig Tree in Song of Solomon
    • More Light on “This Generation”
    • Where Is the Promise of His Coming? (An Answer to Preterism)
    Answer to Skeptics

    This Generation, Soon, Quickly

    Points of Agreement

    Aspects of the Kingdom

    This Generation

    Some Standing Here

    An Overlooked Time Text

    The Abomination of Desolation

    See the Son of Man Coming in the Clouds

    The Abomination of Desolation

    The Anointing of the Most Holy

    Continuity of Temples

    He Shall Confirm a Covenant

    The Timing of the Covenant

    Jerusalem Defended

    Some Scattered Before Jerusalem Defended

    Figurative and Literal

    The Big Valley

    The Plague

    Jerusalem Means Jerusalem

    The Temple

    Destruction of Babylon

    Identity of Babylon

    APPENDIX: Most Holy as Used in the Old Testament

    12. Now What?
    Unity of the Spirit
    Unity of the Faith
    Why Now? Why Not Before?


    Appendix I Outlines of First and Second Thessalonians


    Appendix II Points to Remember When Studying the Bible

    August 13, 2014 at 6:03 PM

  7. afool4jesus

    So much good information here. Just a brief comment..something to think about

    I think most use the word “tribulation” and “wrath of God” interchangeably. However, they are not the same thing. Many confuse them as meaning the same thing.

    The tribulation is from the antichrist and we who remain will probably experience the tribulation. However, God has not ordained his beloved to undergo his wrath. The question then remains….just exactly when does this wrath begin. Bible says no one knows…not even Jesus…when the Father will give the green light on that. So let us not trouble ourselves with that. Let us keep our nose to the grindstone and our eyes toward the heavens. Yes we all have our own tribultions. And we will most likely be subject to the tribulations of the antichrist. Hey it is what it is. I take great comfort that God has not ordained me to suffer His wrath…whenever and whatever it may be. That gives me tremendous comfort and peace.

    Just my own Bible interpretation following here: In Revelation Rev: 8:1 it speaks of a silence in heaven. “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.” Interesting . I am sure you have all noticed that there is a calm before the storm. Birds do not chirp and the winds are very still. …then Kabamm the lightning and thunder and wind erupt. I used to be a pre trib rapture believer but no more. If Revelation is chronological then the rapture may occur at about Rev. 8. Just a thought. God’s timing is perfect….so what’s to worry about???

    August 13, 2014 at 7:36 PM

  8. Interesting post and comments. I agree with the post but I do think it’s a little harsh on the pre-tribers. I know many godly pre-triibers. I also know many pre-tribers who are just as harsh on post-tribers.

    August 13, 2014 at 9:17 PM

    • I agree some parts are harsh….admittedly. And yes, it works both ways…sadly.

      August 13, 2014 at 9:35 PM

  9. Kittii

    Thanks for giving me some positive feedback and words of encouragement. One more link! LOL! I know you like Barabara Aho’s: watch.pair. It’s another web site that has really convinced me. Her web site is endless and it’s very in depth and covers it all, really.

    It just goes to show you that you can’t just post some guys blog and expect someone like me to accept his version.

    I’ve been a Christian since 1972. This isn’t knew to me. Barbara Aho believes in the Pre-trib rapture, like me.







    As a reminder to believers of the Scriptures dealing with the subject of the pre-Tribulation bodily translation (aka the Rapture*) of the true church, in order to equip them to defend the faith when they are challenged by unbelievers. Jude 3 ~ “Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” ~ reveals that God has charged us with the command to earnestly contend for the faith — and that includes this most relevant topic, simply because it is Biblical doctrine and a foundation which Paul himself addressed in 2 Tim 2:17-18 ~ “And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.”

    And we were also commanded by Christ to watch and pray. “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” 2 Peter 3:17


    This report was motivated by the problem of the church falling from it’s steadfastness due to the widespread mockery and outright rejection of the doctrine of the rapture. Moreover it is grievous to see those who are supposedly God’s people listening to and echoing the words of the unsaved in this regard rather than the Word of God. Instead of looking for and hasting unto the day of God (2 Peter 3:12 ~ Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat…), the church has become threatened by it, or is succumbing to the “new” doctrine of a Pre-Wrath/Post-Wrath rapture, or ignoring the rapture completely.


    A campaign is being conducted on a grand scale to debunk the pre-Tribulation rapture as a hoax and a false doctrine that appeals to those who have a cowardly, escapist mentality. This in spite of the fact that the apostle Paul encouraged the Church to yearn for the appearing of Jesus Christ: “Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.” (II Tim. 4:8) There is a reason for the current movement to discredit belief in the pre-Tribulation rapture of the saints, for it will be necessary to assuage the distress of the apostate Church after the rapture of the true Church, and to prepare these lost religious people for a counterfeit rapture at mid-Tribulation.



    To Counterfeit the Second Coming of Christ & the Restoration of All Things




    The Gnostic Roots of Amillennialism

    The Problem With Covenant Theology

    The Biblical Basis of Premillennialism



    A. Rapture of the Church (Transformation/Transfiguration/Astral Travel)
    B. Blood of the Martyrs (Vampirism)
    C. Time of Jacob’s Trouble (Israel Persecuted)
    D. The Two Witnesses (John the Baptist & John the Evangelist)
    E. Murders / Human Sacrifice (Genocide/Eugenics)
    F. No Death (Cloning)
    G. Men Will Seek Death (Suicide)


    A. Unity of Faith (United Religions/Interfaith Movement)
    B. Worship the Dragon (Luciferic Initiation)
    C. Mystery of Iniquity (Gnosticism/Mysticism)
    D. Glorification of Saints (Divinization of Man)
    E. Men Turn to Fables (Mythology)
    F. God All & In All (Union with God/Pantheism)
    G. Expose Things Hidden in Darkness (Phallic Worship)

    H. Bride of Christ (Goddess Worship)

    I. Baptism of Fire (Planetary Pentecost)


    A. Slain for the Word of God (Bible Revision)
    B. Take Away From/Add to Scripture (Bible Canon/Ancient Wisdom Texts)
    C. New Revelation (World Bible)
    D. Understanding Dark Sentences (Allegorical Interpretation)
    E. Private Interpretation (Dynamic Equivalence)
    F. The Everlasting Gospel (New Gospel)


    A. Doctrines of Devils (Heresy/Secret Doctrine)
    B. Falling Away (Apostasy of the Church)
    C. False Teachers & Prophets (New Religious Movements)

    I don’t want to get into debate this, because that’s what Lyndsey and Marianne tried to get me to do on many subjects. They ate me alive with their words. They mocked me and criticized me for copying and pasting. I I think others express it better than I could ever do. But they wanted to attack my words and that’s why they got frustrated with my copying and pasting, because it wasn’t my words. When I did use my own words that’s when they went for the jugular.

    We have to come to our own conclusions and opinions. What I find so interesting is how this subject is so attacked. That’s the very reason why I can believe in it. The Devil doesn’t want you to. It’s our hope. Anyone who is not terrorized or attacked for their belief is not of God. The Devil wants to shut you up and I refuse to be shut up.

    But I think 6 years is long enough. I want to focus on my family and my life. I’m going to leave it in God’s hands. That’s what he’s been telling me.

    My former pastor did a year long study on Revelation. It was good. It’s what I believe. I would be happy to send it to you.

    I left his church because he doesn’t seem to think it’s important that his congregation knows all the deception that’s going on. That Christians can’t handle it or won’t believe it. I was told I’m too researched. I was told People choose to be deceived. Those I did try to tell, said I was into conspiracy theories.

    I’m in between Churches. I want to get past these next few years when all the date setting will be over with. I believe it will pass, just like it has before. I’m just glad most of my immediate family are Christians. I need to find a new prayer group. That’s where the “POWER” is. Don’t know why, but that’s where it is.

    I love you Virginia. You are a real sister in the Lord. We agree on most of the stuff. Jesus is coming. Focus on that. It’s not worth debating it. Study to show thyself approved.

    August 14, 2014 at 10:43 AM

  10. Kittii

    “Just Me” wants to stir up trouble. Don’t give into it. Ignore him. Don’t block him. Skip right over him. LOL!

    August 14, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    • trouble maker….seriously! People can come and go as they please but you can just go!

      August 14, 2014 at 6:12 PM

    • He/She is an agent….yep…I’m sure of it.

      August 14, 2014 at 6:12 PM

  11. Kittii

    I never really studied her web site on this subject before. I just scanned over it. She’s got the Aliens on her web site too. It’s too long to copy and paste it all. Awesome!. It fits with what I believe and I think you would too, Virginia.


    The rapture of the Church will be celebrated on earth as God’s removal of the wicked.

    “The Odes of Solomon is an apocryphal book of songs believed to be written by newly baptized Christians of the First Century. It is interesting to note that in one of the songs, it speaks of the Saints, i.e. the Elect going out to meet Jahshuwah. Odes of Solomon 7:18-23
    “The Most High will be known in His Saints, to announce to those that have songs of the COMING OF JAHSHUWAH

    “So that they may go forth TO MEET HIM, and may sing to Him with Joy and with the harp of many tones. The seers will come before Him and they will be seen before Him, And they will praise Jahshuwah for His love because HE IS NEAR and beholdeth. Thus hatred will BE TAKEN FROM THE EARTH, (rapture of the wicked), along with jealousy it will be drowned. For ignorance hath been destroyed, BECAUSE THE KNOWLEDGE OF JAHWAH HAS ARRIVED (arrived on earth.) Jahshuwah is the Living Word, i.e. wisdom and knowledge of Jahwah, thus the knowledge or the Word of Jahwah has arrived on earth when Jahshuwah arrives. All ignorance is gone.” (emphasis in original) – 450
    •The rapture of the Church will be explained as an alien invasion to remove the wicked.

    “Another deception being prepared for the world is coming from those who claim to be in touch with alien beings from other galaxies. For years they have been announcing that a day is soon coming when extraterrestrials will evacuate a select group of the earth’s population from off of the earth.

    “From a vast array of proposals which may be presented to explain away the Christian’s sudden disappearance, the extraterrestrial equation presents the most intriguing possibilities

    “For many years science fiction writers have toyed with the idea of teleportation. The Star Trek series popularized the idea with the phrase, ‘Beam me up Scotty.’ A whimsical bumper sticker once seen on some Christian vehicles read, ‘Beam me up Jesus.’

    “Prophecy students have pondered the possibility that this science fiction dalliance might someday be used to provide a possible explanation for the Rapture to the earth’s masses. In the past it was recognized there would be serious reservations by the scientific community as to the plausibility of such a fanciful idea.

    “When the notion of ‘quantum teleportation’ was presented to Albert Einstein he rejected it and referred to the concept as ‘spooky.’ Science has now proved Albert Einstein’s rejection was premature and the spooky is taking place…

    “In Genesis 11:6 the Lord expressed His dismay to the fact that when evil men are united in purpose and mind their abilities, if left unrestrained, are boundless. How far will mankind be allowed to develop the power of teleportation God only knows.

    “It is intriguing to contemplate on the assertion that top secret developments are 50 years in advance of what is generally known to the public when pondering this ‘spooky’ area of science.

    “When considering what lies in store for the future in light of Bible prophecy we realize that further advancement in this area is not really necessary in order for Satan to make use of it in his end time arsenal. The feasibility that such a discovery can be advanced already makes it a powerful tool for deception.

    “At the start of this new millennium we find that this astounding scientific leap is not being left to languish hidden away from the public eye.

    “A June 11, ’02 Colorado Springs Gazette article which headlined, ‘Researchers ‘teleport’ laser beam…Technique may be used someday to move matter,’ reported that, ‘Australian scientists said Monday they successfully ‘teleported’ a laser beam encoded with data, breaking it up and reconstructing an exact replica a yard away. Their work replicates an experiment at the California Institute of Technology in 1998, but the Australian team thinks its technique is more reliable and consistent…At this state, the process perfected by Australian physicist Ping Koy Lam and his 12-member team only can teleport light by destroying the light beam and creating a copy at the receiving end from light particles known as photons. ‘We have taken a beam of laser light…and completely destroyed it and then made measurements of the destroyed laser beam and then took the measured results to the other side of the lab and reconstructed an exact replica of what we have destroyed,’ Lam said. Teleporting a laser beam involves destroying and replicating billions of photons. Lam said he thinks the process, called ‘quantum teleportation,’ which takes a nanosecond – one billionth of one second – soon will be used for teleporting matter. Teleporting a living person likely would be virtually impossible, scientists said. ‘In theory, there is nothing stopping us, but the complexity of the problem is so huge no one is thinking seriously about it at the moment,’ Lam said.’

    “So now at the dawn of the 21st century scientists have proven to their satisfaction that in theory there is nothing stopping the teleportation of human beings – the only problem is that it would take greatly advanced technology to achieve it.

    “To a world soon to be overwhelmed with satanic deception, the idea that a super advanced alien race of beings is using its vast knowledge to make people disappear may well be the answer they cling to.

    “These are the last days and the Rapture is going to really happen. The believable lie that technologically advanced aliens are able to perpetrate such an incredible feat of quantum teleportation is now soundly placed within the realm of accepted science.” (Jamma Mokhriby, “Teleportation & the Rapture”)

    August 14, 2014 at 11:50 AM

  12. Kittii

    “Just Me”

    I come back to see the comments. I’m not on the mailing list. I’m trying to wean myself off of this. I’m off a facebook for 1 year now and actually I don’t care anymore. I don’t want to argue. It’s not edifying. A lot of people are on facebook to stay in contact with family and friends. I think it’s better to just call. But they track telephone calls too, so it doesn’t matter. Everything is being tracked.

    It gets me thinking when I see the comments and submit an answer to someone’s inquiry.

    Do Catholics believe in a Millennium?
    Do they believe and practice the Jewish Feasts?
    Do they believe the Jewish feasts are prophetical?

    I think the answer is no to all 3, so we don’t believe the same.

    This was linked to Barbara Aho’s web site and that’s why I posted it. One link leads to the next.

    The Seven Feasts and Their Meanings

    The Feasts

    The Scriptures


    To be fulfilled

    1. Passover

    Lev. 23:5

    Luke 22: 1-18
    John19:31;1Cor. 5:7

    2. Unleavened

    Lev. 23:6

    Luke 22: 7-19;

    1 Cor. 5:7-8

    3. Firstfruits

    Lev. 23:9


    4. Pentecost

    Lev. 23:10

    Acts. 2:1

    5. Trumpets

    Lev. 23:24

    1Cor.15:52;1Thes. 4;16,17;Ro.8:11;Heb.12:19;Rev.1:10;10:7;14:14-19.

    6. Atonement

    Lev.16:30; 23:27

    Heb.9:11-28;Zech.12:10; 14:4.

    7. Tabernacles

    Lev. 23:34

    Zech. 2:12;Rev. 15:5; 21:3

    The Scriptures confirm that the Old Testament is the Word of God. Scriptures reveal the prefiguring of God’s Plan, Work, and the promised Seed of the Woman—the Messiah/Saviour who would be a ransom for fallen mankind and restore mankind to where Adam and his wife were before the Fall—before Adam and his wife obeyed Lucifer/Satan rather than God (Genesis 3). The New Testament shows the fulfillment of the Word of God. In time, Moses led the children of Israel out of the bondage of Egypt to the promise land, Canaan, which means “to be made humble,” Moses was a prefiguring of the greater Deliverer who would lead mankind out of spiritual Egypt forevermore. The Tabernacle in the Wilderness revealed God’s Plan of Salvation.

    The Seven Feasts which God said in Leviticus “These are My Feasts” (Lev. 23:2), also reveal God’s Plan of Deliverance. The Prophets told of a Saviour/Messiah, and Isaiah and Zechariah reveal Him in great detail, and Psalm 22 describes how He would die although crucifixion was not used in that time. The New Testament confirms that the many prophecies pertaining to this Saviour was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. These Scriptures are summarized in Appendix C of the book The Six-Pointed Star. Click here to order.

    The Catching Up (Rapture)

    From the time that Jesus Christ was taken up in a cloud (Acts 1:9), believers have wondered when He will return to Earth as promised. The “Catching up” of the saints is Biblical. In modern times it has been called the Rapture—and exactly when this event takes place has intrigued many. Will it be prior to the great tribulation; in the middle of the great tribulation—halfway through the reign of the false messiah—the anti-Christ; or in conjunction with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?

    Well, the Scriptures say, “no man knows the day nor the hour” (Mt. 24:36), and so many have set dates and have been totally wrong. Yet, the Lord does not leave us orphans, and we have some indication:

    The most important clue is in the Seven Feasts themselves. For example, the Feast of Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of Firstfruits were all manifested and fulfilled at the time of the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. Additionally, the Feast of Pentecost was manifested and fulfilled exactly fifty days after the crucifixion with the coming of the Holy Spirit to believers: The Holy Spirit came to fulfill Ezekiel 36:26,27—God would put His spirit in man, and man would know His Statute and judgements and do them. He also imparts to believers: Power, comfort, guidance, the Fruit, the Gifts, the renewal of the mind, regeneration of the fallen nature, wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Therefore, the “Catching up” will be at the Feasts of Trumpets. Examine the Scriptures and see what the blowing of Trumpets meant in the Old Testament, and read the Scriptures regarding the blowing of the trumpets (the sound of the trump, trumpet) in the New Testament.The Feast of Trumpets has not yet been manifested on earth—it is to come. Which year will it herald in the “Catching up” (Rapture) of believers (1 Thess. 4:16,17)? It does not say. This is why believers should be ready at all times and not be as the five foolish virgins who missed the bridegroom because they had no oil in their lamps. Heed the warning of the Lord, Himself: “Therefore be ye ready” (Mt. 24:44).

    August 14, 2014 at 12:09 PM

  13. Kittii

    “I will ignore your comments about comparing Catholics to nazis and communists, except to lump loving Catholics into that, also with pagans, is abhorrent. If you put aside your bias, there are bad apples everywhere, Catholic or Protestant. Many Catholics are far more Godly than many self righteous Protestants.”

    Where did anyone compare Catholics to Nazis and communists? It’s not about being Godly or a bad apple. Good works don’t save you.

    Just me:

    Are you a member of Herbert Armstrongs churches of God? Marianne had one of those on her blog. She never blocked him, even after I asked him and he didn’t even deny it. He was constantly challenging her with scripture. Cults are better than Christians at apologetics. He used to say the Woman in Revelation 12 was the Church instead of Israel. I’m not going to be here. The focus in Revelation goes back to Israel and the Jews. That’s what it’s all about, not the Church.

    The Church of Philadelphia raised a red flag for me when you mentioned it and then you made this big deal about linen and garments being two different things. Sounds like Mormonism.

    August 14, 2014 at 2:40 PM

    • I placed this article from another site. This was not written by me. But, I DO AGREE WITH IT!

      August 14, 2014 at 6:09 PM

  14. Kittii

    Spiritual Israel is replacement theology. Paul spoke about that in Romans chapter 10 & 11 extensively. “Blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in”.

    God has not fulfilled all of his promises to “PHYSICAL ISRAEL” That’s what the millennium is all about. We’re all going to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem during that time. Sacrifices will be resumed too. Jesus said he will rule with a Rod of Iron during this time, so it’s not going to be optional. You’re talking about works. The Book of Revelation is about God’s dealing with Physical Israel and the Tribulation Saints. The Word:
    “Church” is not mentioned after chapter 3, only the Tribulation Saints. Two different groups. Jesus gives me the faith and it’s his righteous acts through me that allow me to throw crowns at his feet. He gets all the glory. The Safe place is for the Jews who are in Israel in Matthew chapter 24 and see the Abomination of desolation. They keep the Sabbath. It’s talking to the Jews in Israel. Some people think it’s Petra in Jordan. The Sabbath is the covenant God made with them. That’s not the same covenant he has with the Bride. There is a remnant of believing Jews. That’s different than the church. I’m happy to be a Gentile Christian.

    August 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

  15. Kittii

    This is just a forerunner of what we can expect in the future.

    He was obviously being used by the god of this world—Satan—and his demons (2 Corinthians 4:4). Most are ignorant of the spirit world because people refuse to know God and the devil!

    Hitler said, “We are not a movement, rather we are a religion …. I’m going to become a religious figure” (Waite, op. cit.). Even Hitler’s “thousand year Reich” was a religious belief based on the 1000-year biblical Millennium.

    It is truly amazing that the world knows so little about the satanic power which was behind Hitler. So much has been written, but not understood. “The colossal Assembly Hall planned for his new capital of Germania should be seen as a secular cathedral rather than a civic building. The dome was to be large enough to encompass the dome of St. Peter’s seven times—a favorite number. As Albert Speer has noted, ‘It was basically a hall of worship…. Without such cult significance the motivation for Hitler’s main structure would have been senseless and unintelligible …’” (ibid., p. 32).

    What is he saying? Albert Speer, a very intelligent and close associate to Hitler, clearly stated that Hitler was motivated by an extreme cult worship. That means we cannot understand what motivated Hitler unless we comprehend his radical religion! We must perceive why he planned to build a great “hall of worship” with such bizarre “cult significance.”

    Those people close to Hitler have told the world about his satanic religion. Still, the world usually refuses to believe them!

    August 15, 2014 at 10:09 AM

  16. Kittii

    It’s not about avoiding the persecution of this world. I trust God. He knows what he’s doing. Read his word. He will give you the peace that passes all understanding. Read the rapture solution, look up the verses. Read Barbara Ahos web site on the rapture. That’s all I can say. I know what I believe. I wish others were as secure. Unfortunately, I’m always curious about how things are going to turn out. I want to know the future. I was into horoscopes in my junior high years. I knew everyone’s zodiac sign. LOL! We had a Ouija board game as children. I can’t believe my parents were okay with that. Maybe they didn’t know. We didn’t have any money to buy such things. Maybe my sister borrowed it from someone. I don’t remember.

    August 15, 2014 at 10:16 AM

    • Gary R. Sayers

      —– Good stuff, Kittii, on replacement theology… THAT is the main grist mill; the mortar & pestle upon which the hope (‘Blessed hope’) seems to be ground up most viciously… The replacement folks will never stop their ongoing insistence that the CHURCH is the vehicle through which GOD will ‘change the world’, so then He can return to claim His perfect redeemed and reformed planet made perfect by the CHURCH, before He then ushers in the “New Heaven and New Earth”… I always wondered how that ‘squares’ up..
      —– I mean, if the Earth is ‘perfected’ by the CHURCH prior to God’s Messiah coming, then WHY does God even NEED a ‘NEW Heaven’, or especially ‘A NEW EARTH’???… What’ s wrong with the one the CHURCH has already ‘perfected’??.. Why REPLACE it anyway??? Doesn’t make sense… And it IS right there in the Book of Revelation, chap. 21, FIRST LINE in the passage: “Now I saw a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH, for the first earth had passed away, also there was no more sea…”..What about the ‘old earth’ that the replacementers had ‘made perfect’???… WHERE is IT???… You tell ME…
      —– I like the way Hal Lindsey puts it… “The preachers who WON’T preach today about bible prophecy really rile me up… They’ll say ‘It scares people…’ Hogwash!!.. These passages are meant to be sources of HOPE!!!… Besides, Jesus did not tell His Church to wait here till He comes back and ‘clean up the fishpond’…He told us to FISH IN IT…”
      —– Gonna miss you, Kittii… Who am I gonna be able to agree with NOW???… (EEEK!)

      August 15, 2014 at 11:53 AM

      • Kittii

        I had a really good pastor who taught the word, but I had to leave because it drove me crazy knowing they didn’t think it was important to know the deception going on. If I find another good church, I’m just going to keep my mouth shut. It’s in God’s hands.

        So I can listen to him on-line if I want. He did a study on Job and I had never seen this verse before: Perfect Earth? Perfect Heaven? Isn’t that why Jesus went away to prepare a New Heaven and a New Earth?

        Job 15:14-16
        What is man, that he could be pure? And he, who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous? If God puts not trust in his saints, and the heavens are not pure in his sight, How much less man, who is abominable and filthy, Who drinks iniquity like water?

        Hal Lindsey is another one who drives me crazy. He’s still on those apostate Christian programs like TBN. He’s been married 4 times and he demonizes the Islamics for something they didn’t do. They didn’t do 9/11 and I’m going to my death bed saying it. If that isn’t the greatest deception of them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8 years I didn’t even question it. I just accepted it without ever questioning it. How gullible I was.

        August 15, 2014 at 3:26 PM

  17. Kittii

    The Jews are truly central to all of this. They have been expelled from 109 countries. Satan has been after them since the beginning of time. He want’s to destroy them. Keep your eyes on Israel, but don’t be fooled by their politics. They are manipulators. That’s in the Bible and they have survived with that skill. They willl be around till the last verse of the Bible is fulfilled. Barry Chamish doesn’t seem to think so. Actually Barbara Aho writes about the Sabatean Jews and the Labor Zionists Jews that Barry writes about. Truly fascinating subject to follow, but it keeps you out of God’s word.

    August 15, 2014 at 10:25 AM

    • Kittii

      “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day” (Matthew 24:20)
      Christians do not worship on or keep the Sabbath. Exodus 31:17 states that the Sabbath was a special everlasting sign between God and Israel. Clearly, this passage is addressing the Jews who to this day continue to keep the Sabbath. The primary focus of events of the seven year Tribulation is directed towards Israel and the coming promised Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus Christ. Church Age saints are not in view here.

      When Jesus began His ministry, the Gospels record that He presenting Himself to Israel as their Messiah, and that the promised kingdom was “at hand.” (See Matt. 3:2, 4:17, 10:7; Mark 1:15, Luke 21:31). He was offering them the promised kingdom promised in the Old Testament. However, the Nation of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah. In 70 AD God allowed Titus, the Roman general to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. Biblical Judaism ceased to exist and the Jews were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. God’s offer of the promised Kingdom was thus postponed. This is a vital truth and must be understood in order to correctly understand what God’s plan is for the Tribulation. Many Old Testament prophecies such as Ezekiel 36 predict Israel’s regathering into the Promised Land.

      Clear evidence that the the seven year Tribulation is God’s plan to complete His promise to Israel is seen the prophecies of Daniel. Daniel prophesied that the Messiah would be cut off in the 483rd year (week), but that God’s covenant with Israel would be confirmed in the seventh week. Jesus was “cut off” being crucified in the 483rd year as Daniel foretold which leaves seven years of his prophecy unfulfilled. The coming seven Tribulations, or Daniel’s 70th Week is the period when God will once again offer the promised Kingdom to Israel again and many Jews will be saved. God will complete His plan; purge the earth and Israel of unbelievers which will usher in the thousand year reign of Christ on earth. Christ will be the King of the Jews and of the world and rule from Jerusalem. Christians saved since Pentecost until the Rapture are not in view in this final seven years of the Old Testament dispensation. The Church Age will end before the seven year Tribulation and the last seven years of the Old Testament period will begin until God has completed His purposes for the nation of Israel. The current dispensation of the Church Age will end with the Rapture of all believers, both dead and alive, before God begins to renew His covenant with Israel. There is nothing in Matthew 24 that refers to Church Age saints. Those saved in the Tribulation are a different group of believers.

      October 13, 2014 at 12:18 PM

  18. Kittii

    You’ve got to separate out the different groups and times.

    August 15, 2014 at 12:33 PM

  19. Kittii

    August 15, 2014 at 3:30 PM

  20. Kittii

    Steven Ben-Noon believes the Abomination of Desolation is when Titus desecrated the temple in 70 AD. Sounds a little like what the Preterit’s believe. I always was taught that Antiochus Epiphanies was a type of anti-Christ, because that’s what he did during the Maccabean period in the temple. He says there’s compound meanings in these verses. I think I could accept more that Temple you were talking about over here after listening to this.

    August 15, 2014 at 4:12 PM

  21. 😦 affraid to be suffer then hope the rapture will coming soon? OMG !
    Yup, Virginia have a good perspective, I just wanna give interesting news about it, maybe has not been discussed before

    Re 9 :
    2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.
    3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
    5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man.
    6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

    “Desire to die and death will flle from them” how could? is it possible?

    Offcourse !

    Could because this ..

    or because this death star in a position near Earth ..
    I suspect, that death stars is an angel (if NASA not spread a hoax as before).

    Can U imagine ? tsetse torment make asleep paralyze or death stars make dark upon earth. There is no kind of energy or electricty could exist at the time dark star nearby.

    about Cube planet, well that’s funniest hoax I ever see 🙂
    Please expose about massive fraud done by Nasa, why they dont honestly announcing if Earth is a prison?

    August 18, 2014 at 12:22 AM

  22. Kittii

    I’m glad I don’t follow the Hebrew roots movement anymore. He’s wrong up above. I read the Bible literally.

    The Church of Christ got me questioning my salvation when the came door to door when I was a new Christian. They believe you have to be baptized and say the sinners prayer at the same time or you are not saved.

    It clearly says in Revelation 13:12-15
    An he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    In order to do that, you have to have a temple and an alter in order to worship him.

    He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

    And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

    He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

    It’s Very clear, in black and white “IMAGE OF THE BEAST” speaks and you worship the image.

    August 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM

  23. Kittii

    This is the cult of Herbert W. Armstrong: restored World of God church. But I agree with this part on this web site. It’s amazing how cults infiltrate. They know their stuff.
    An Earlier Type

    Now for another clue about the abomination. Recall the biblical principle of dual­ity—a former and latter fulfillment—in prophecy. God usually gives a former type to help us understand the latter fulfillment. The former is not the primary fulfillment of a prophecy. It only points to the latter fulfillment, which is the main focus and purpose of the prophecy itself.

    This duality is seen with the “abomination of desolation” prophecy. And what it reveals is fascinating! Let’s examine the historical type of what has already occurred. First, recall the lengthy Daniel 11 prophecy. A crucial part of that prophecy comes up for review and expansion at this juncture.

    In about 176 BC, Antiochus IV (king of the north, and type of the future final civil ruler who embodies the Beast system) acquired the kingdom from his older brother. After this, Antiochus Epiphanes removed the high priest in Jerusalem and installed some­one loyal to himself. Upon a triumphant return from Egypt, in 168 BC, Antiochus sacked the Temple at Jerusalem and took its golden vessels.

    Recall that Antiochus also sent troops to Judea in 167 BC. They destroyed the Temple and its sanctuary. This act stopped the commanded twice daily sacrifices at the Temple (Ex. 29:39-42; Num. 28:4-6). This was an overt attempt to wipe out the Jewish religion with all of its doctrines.

    This military leader also stationed a garrison atop the Jewish Temple Mount, desecrating it. Also recall that Daniel wrote, “Yes, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him [Antiochus] the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of [the] sanctuary was cast down” (8:11).

    Daniel added this in chapter 11: “And arms shall stand on his [Antiochus’] part, and they shall pol­lute the sanctuary of strength [the Jewish Temple], and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that makes desolate” (vs. 31).

    Now then, what exactly is this coming “abomination” that will be “set up” again? The truth—born of history—is beyond eye-opening in regard to prophecy.

    The first fulfillment was not just Antiochus’ armies coming into Jerusalem—an early “treading it down” for three years until 165 BC—but the fact that those armies set up an image—a specific idol—on the Temple’s altar, which defiled and made it desolate. Antiochus further polluted the Temple by offering swine’s blood upon the altar.

    These historical events of Daniel 8 are an unmistakable fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel 11:31, and a forerunner of the end-time fulfillment of the “abomination of desolation” spoken of by Christ in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

    We are left to ask: What was this statue and where is it now?

    Incredible History Unveiled

    Now comes fascinating knowledge. You have almost certainly never heard it. History reveals that the idol Antiochus placed in the Temple—or “holy place”—was a statue of Zeus or Jupiter Olympus, the chief deity of pagan Hellenists of Greece and Macedonia.

    Volume Four of A Dictionary of Christian Biography, Literature, Sects and Doctrines makes this clear. The context has to do with Simon (Magus) the sorcerer, described in Acts 8: “When Justin Martyr wrote [AD 152] his Apology [his book] the sect of the Simonians [from Simon Magus] appears to have been formidable, for he speaks four times of their founder, Simon [Magus]…and we need not doubt that he identified him with the Simon of the [book of] Acts. He states that he was a Samaritan [Acts 8 makes that clear], adding that his birthplace was a village called Gitta; he describes him as a formidable magician, and tells that he came to Rome in the days of Claudius Caesar [which is AD 45], and made such an impression by his magical powers, that he was honoured as a god, a statue being erected to him on the Tiber [River], between the two bridges, bearing the inscription ‘Simoni deo Sancto’” (p. 682). This inscription means “Holy God Simon.” Also note that Simon’s followers generally called him Jupiter.

    We can ask: Is this the very same statue placed by Antiochus?

    Following the journey of this statue is vital. Do not miss the flow of events. Remember, God expects they be understood!

    Statue Reappears

    It has been well reported that many centuries ago a statue of the pagan god Jupiter was found in Rome. The large bronze statue was altered and renamed St. Peter. One strong indication of this comes from John Parker: “By some writers, it is affirmed to be no other than the statue of Jupiter, with a new head and hands; others stating that this famous statue was melted down by order of Pope Leo I in the middle of the fifth century, and recast into this figure of S. Peter, holding the keys of heaven with one hand, whilst the other is raised in the act of benediction in the Roman manner, with the first and second and fingers extended” (The Archaeology of Rome, p. 38).

    Ralph Woodrow, author of Babylon Mystery Religion, goes further: “This statue is looked upon with most profound veneration and its foot has been kissed so many times [by devotees] that the toes are nearly worn away!” (It is more than interesting to note that the Catholic religion has a long tradition of kissing idols—feet, rings and crosses—yet the pagan origin of this practice can clearly be found in I Kings 19:18 and Hosea 13:1-2.)

    Incredible! Yet these are the facts from history. This same statue—directly related to the abomination of desolation—is now prominently displayed in Rome!

    Remember, Jesus said His servants—those who understand God’s prophecies and know what to watch for—shall “see” the abomination of desolation. This must be referring to something that is physically set up and visible in the holy place.

    Will this statue be brought back, full-circle, to Jerusalem to fulfill this end-time prophecy? God, through the initial fulfillment, has almost certainly provided the answer for those willing to believe His Word and plain accounts of history regarding the role of this image and its connection to the end-time civil ruler (Beast), and the religious leader (False Prophet) who will direct that it be placed—with himself—in Jerusalem.

    In Place of God

    Ezekiel 28 provides a fuller picture of the audaciousness of the False Prophet when he enters Jerusalem: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, ‘Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus [a man, not to be confused with the king of Tyrus referenced in verse 12, who is clearly Satan]…Thus says the Lord God; because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, ‘I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas” (vs. 1-2).

    Daniel 11:45 explains that the king of the north will “plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain…” Of course, the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea are about equidistant on either side of Jerusalem, east and west. Any map of the Middle East shows this. The False Prophet will obviously participate in this move and join him.

    Continuing in Ezekiel 28 about the False Prophet: “Yet you are a man, and not God, though you set your heart as the heart of God: behold, you are wiser than Daniel [this man will think he is]; there is no secret that they can hide from you [describing his proud thinking]. With your wisdom and with your understanding you have gotten you riches, and have gotten gold and silver into your treasures” (vs. 2-4).

    Let’s pause to summarize. A United Europe will transform the crashing global economy and usher in a time of world prosperity unlike any previous time. The False Prophet will proclaim himself to be God. Amazingly, hundreds of millions will believe him, having been seduced by accompanying miracles. The world will rejoice and also worship the Beast because he will bring peace and prosperity back to the world.

    Verses 5-8 describe more of this religious leader’s pride in the context of what his end will be: “By your great wisdom and traffick have you increased your riches, and your heart is lifted up because of your riches: therefore thus says the Lord God; because you have set your heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon you…they shall bring you down to the pit.”

    Antiochus Epiphanes was a forerunning type of the False Prophet (but also of the Beast because he too is worshipped).

    Future Fulfillment

    The ultimate fulfillment of the abomination of desolation is not only the statue, it is the final leader of the religious system—the human personification of the Babylonish whore herself—who enters into Jerusalem and says, “I am God.”

    In fact, the entire Babylonish system that this False Prophet—supported by the Beast—represents is twice referenced regarding “abominations”: “So he [an angel] carried me [the apostle John] away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, mystery, babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth” (Rev. 17:3-5).

    God does not just describe this false religious system as abominable, but refers to it as “the mother of…abominations.”

    This religious leader is described in II Thessalonians and there referred to as the “man of sin.” Notice: “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [Christ’s Return] shall not come, except there come a falling away first [a prophecy fulfilled in the twentieth century] and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition…Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2:3-4).

    Verses 9 and 10 explain how this deceiver will sway great numbers to worship him and the civil leader: “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth…” The allure of miracles will seduce the masses into supporting and even worshipping the Beast. (See also Revelation 13:11-14 and 19:20.)

    This is clearly the False Prophet of Revelation 16:13, not the Beast. But do not be confused. They both are seen as divine. Remember, Antiochus Epiphanes—the civil ruler—as well as the statue—representing the religious system of Babylon in Jerusalem—was a type of the coming Beast and False Prophet.

    True Motivation

    What is the motivation behind the setting up of the abomination of desolation? Examining a passage in Psalm 83 reveals why the Beast power will come against Jerusalem to destroy it and desecrate the Jewish state and religion:

    “Come…let us [certain nations acting in alliance] cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against you [this describes an association of nations in the Middle East who decide to ally with the 10 European nations under the Beast]…Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession” (vs. 4-5, 12).

    First, it is certainly no secret that forces exist today in the Middle East who want to “cut off” the modern nation of Israel—the Jews. We also read from Luke that this was a time of (Gentile) “wrath” against the “people” of “this land.” Many other countries within the “nation” identified here as Israel are also to be included in this destruction that is being planned.

    Now focus on the term “houses of God.” We saw that the final powerful religious leader will “plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas [Mediterranean Sea and Dead Sea] in the glorious holy mountain” (Dan. 11:45). Comparing this passage with Psalm 83 makes clear they describe the same holy places in Jerusalem where the Jews’ daily sacrifices must already by then have been restarted.

    So then, the religious motive behind the confederation is to wipe out the nations of Israel—and to seize the holy places in Jerusalem, the “houses of God.” And just as Antiochus entered Jerusalem centuries ago, destroyed the city and desecrated the Temple, a final fulfillment of the abomination of desolation is drawing nearer.

    Understand. The Vatican has long said they want to proclaim Jerusalem an “international city.” But this seemingly peaceful desire will only be a pretense for taking possession of the city’s holy sites. Realize that this false system will declare, “They are safe with us! You can trust us! We will be the guarantor of Jerusalem—and its three ‘great religions.’ And we are prepared to bring armies to ensure it.”

    Longing for “Peace in our time”—reminiscent of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s report upon returning from Berlin just before World War II—this will please and reassure the ears of the majority—and the decision makers!

    Understand. For the daily sacrifices to stop they must first be restarted. There must come at least a temporary restoration of these Old Covenant sacrifices in Jerusalem at the Temple Mount under the direction of a re-established priesthood. While a full temple is not needed, something must be rebuilt.

    When the False Prophet directs the Beast to erect this statue at the site of the reconstituted daily sacrifices, the abomination will officially “stand in the holy place”!

    August 18, 2014 at 11:35 AM

  24. Kittii

    I posted this on another post. Michael Jackson was worshipped.

    August 18, 2014 at 11:44 AM

  25. Kittii

    People worship Marilyn Monroe. She’s being passes around cities.

    August 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM

  26. Kittii

    I’m glad I got some hope with the rapture, because if I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night worrying about aliens in underground bunkers, wars and rumors of wars, increased earthquakes, finding money to horde food and water to make it through the Tribulation etc, etc, etc,

    I went to a church last Sunday who has daily prayer meetings for an hour and 3 hour prayer meetings on Wednesday. I’m still looking for a new church, but I’m definitely going to check this one out, because that’s what I’m looking for: a church who is into Prayer!!!!!

    This could be the name of my blog if I had one.

    August 19, 2014 at 11:34 AM

  27. Kittii

    There has to be an Israel.
    There has to be a Temple
    There has to be sacrifices
    There has to be a covenant or peace treaty made that is broken.

    In Matthew 25, Jesus is speaking to his Disciples and tells them an important parable. The Parable of the ten virgins. He is telling them this immediately after the discourse regarding the signs of his return. Read carefully below and make your own conclusion:

    “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. “Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. “Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, “but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. “But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ “Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. “And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ “But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ “And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ “But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

    So after reading this, I come to a logical conclusion that Jesus is telling his disciples that his return will be a mystery. He will come when they least expect and some will not be ready because they have gotten too caught up with the cares of this life. Only one chapter before this, in Matthew 24, Jesus warns his disciples to watch and be ready because he will come like a thief in the night and that no one will know the day or the hour. In Matthew 24:31-33 Jesus tells them to watch for the signs and they will be able to tell when the time is close. He does not give them the day or hour, but gives them signs to look for.

    “The Rapture” will occur quickly according to St. Paul, “Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” I Corinthians 15:51-52.

    So this is a very quick change and it happens when we least expect it. So we are commanded to be ready at all times. It is a surprise, but not a total surprise. It’s like a party that will be thrown in your honor. You know that a party is being planned, but you don’t know when it will occur. You expect it to happen, but don’t know when and who might be there. Suddenly you walk into your home to find 50 people blowing horns and saying surprise. Although you knew it would happen, you are still surprised. I imagine that “The Rapture” will be much the same except this will be the greatest party of our eternal lives. This leads to another reason that I believe in that the Pre-Tribulation rapture.

    A problem I have with the Mid-Tribulation rapture and the Post Tribulation rapture is that if we assumed that the rapture were to occur at the middle or the end of “The Great Tribulation”, we would know the date that “The Rapture would occur. How? Let’s turn back to what Daniel said in Chapters 9:27 & 12:11. 1st he tells us in 9:27 that the anti-Christ will make a covenant for seven years and then half way through it, he stops the daily sacrifices. This would make the Mid-Tribulationists aware of the timing (three and a half years) of “The Rapture”. Furthermore, Daniel states in 12:11 that after the daily sacrifices are stopped there will be 1290 days until the end. So this would allow the Post-Tribulationists to calculate the date of “The Rapture” (1290 days). There is no mystery in either of those views and Jesus already told us that his coming would be a surprise to his believers, but still many will be ready, because they were found doing what they were supposed to be doing.

    Another problem I have with the Mid-Tribulationist and the Post Tribulationist views is that they leave the “Elect” on the Earth during some or all of the Tribulation and thus in harm’s way. Both believe that the “Elect” will be sealed and supernaturally protected from God’s wrath, but leaves them open to extreme persecution and suffering as they watch their family and friends perish. Although, I believe there will be persecution of the Saints during the “The Great Tribulation”, the Saints being referred to in Revelation are those who did not believe prior to “The Great Tribulation” and they became Christians during it. Since they were not ready at the time Jesus came to save them from it, they were left behind. I believe after “The Rapture” many will become believers (Gentile and Jew), especially knowing that their family and friends who were believers were Raptured.

    September 2, 2014 at 10:49 AM

    • —– I think there’s something getting missed in all this hard dissecting & disseminating about ‘the Rapture’… Like you, Kittii, I’m FIRM as to my own position on ‘pre’ as to the timing of the event… But something MAY be getting overlooked here, and I’ll try to clarify at the terrible risk of ‘redundancy’… I doubt there’s much on this blog that HASN’T been discussed, due to the obvious ‘scholarship’ of many of the posters… So redundancy be damned; I’ll go on and express it here… It truly was MY ‘fixing point’ as to my personal convincing of its validity… I first heard this taught by Zola Levitt, who’s gone to Glory…
      —– Jesus spoke to His disciples the night before His Passion at His Own supper table:
      —–“Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me… In My Father’s House are many dwelling places (‘mansions’-KJV); if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you… And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also… And you know the way where I am going…” There is a relative point here, perhaps a ‘hidden context’…
      —– Your post above, Kittii, touches upon the subject of the ‘ten virgins’… The person who gets overlooked in that story is the one ‘expected’ by them… He is simply referred to as “The Bridegroom”… The great truth here is that you cannot have a ‘bridegroom’ without two things extant concurrently.. One is a ‘BRIDE’, the other of course a ‘wedding’..
      —– If one were to examine the Hebrew tradition regarding the wedding practice, young prospective grooms were to come to the father of the bride-to-be and offer a price for a dowry; ‘her price’ is traditionally referred to, also called ‘the price of betrothal’, or ‘redemption’ is often used interchangeably… The prospective husband next returns to his own dwelling place, where he begins to prepare a place for he and his bride-to-be to dwell within… The bride DOES NOT KNOW the day her husband will come to claim her, so she is told to prepare and be ready… Finally, the day comes, the bride unaware of it, and her betrothed husband arrives in the great company of his best friends, with ‘shofars’ and flutes and tambourines blaring out loudly, announcing his arrival… Accompanied by his entourage, the groom enters the bride’s chambers, personally lifts and bears her out (often in Israel today to a waiting automobile!!)… The bride is then taken from her own house to live in the dwelling place ‘prepared for her’ by the groom, where the ceremony is performed to wed the couple, and a great feast is held in honor of the newlyweds, who dwell together in the groom’s house ‘happily ever after’…Or so it is HOPED!!!……
      —– I hope it does not escape those who read this blog that Christ or LORD is yet even MORE… He is our HUSBAND… The Church, those in whom His Spirit truly dwells, are seen clearly as His BRIDE… Certainly this is New Testament teaching… But what about the ‘wedding’?… The ‘New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her Husband’ is an interesting image in Revelation chp. 21:1-7, this being accomplished during an event that can only be described as ‘celebratory’…
      —– I think we forget the nature of our relationship to God, AS A CHURCH… As a partner in marriage-to-be… I believe the message is clear, but then, I WANT to believe it… I want to BE AT the marriage feast of The Lamb so clearly described in Revelation chp. 5… If I am included in that great number of ‘thousands upon thousands’, and I am looked at by Jesus as ‘betrothed’ to Him, then it would appear that HE wants me to be there even more than I do!!!… This can revolutionize my entire devotional life if I take it to heart, or even may save a few SOULS… All is about GOD and HIS LOVE… God has used the Jewish people yet AGAIN, it appears, to ‘template’ His loving relationship to us through their own wedding traditions… I don’t know what YOU think, but I prefer infinite LOVE to having my own ‘infinite understanding’… I can WAIT for that… When I “know even as I AM known..”
      —– God be with you all… Pray this through if it touches your heart… The Spirit will never lie to you, like the MIND will… Don’t let ‘curiosity’ die, though… Just keep it off the throne…

      October 5, 2014 at 7:58 PM

      • Kittii

        This is the blog that saved me from totally losing faith over the Pre-trib rapture. I really recommend this study. You can’t study it enough. It’s confusing. He’s got the same points in it that you do. God bless you Gary. We can still converse, even though Virginia is on Medical leave. She’s reading the posts. I know because she has to moderate some of them.

        October 13, 2014 at 11:37 AM

      • Kittii

        Here’s another good blog that does a study.

        Pre-trib rapture 28-proof in Jude
        Pre-trib rapture 27-The Most “Boring” Day Arrival of the Lord
        Pre-trib rapture 26-Pass the test once
        Pre-trib 25-Lead us not into temptation
        Pre-trib 24-Debunking Objections to the Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church
        Pre-trib 23-Debunking the “Other Tribbers” : Immediately After The Tribulation of Those Days
        Pre-trib 22-The Rapture Solution
        Pre-Trib Rapture 21
        Pre-trib Rapture 20
        Pre-trib Rapture 19
        Pre-trib Rapture 18
        Pre-trib Rapture 17
        Pre-trib Rapture 16
        Pre-trib Rapture 15
        Pre-trib rapture 14
        Pre-trib Rapture 13
        Pre-trib Rapture 12
        Pre-trib Rapture 11
        Pre-trib Rapture 10
        Pre-trib Rapture 9
        Pre-trib Rapture 8
        Pre-trib Rapture 7
        Pre-trib Rapture 6
        Pre-trib Rapture 5
        Pre-trib Rapture 4
        Pre-trib Rapture 3
        Pre-trib Rapture 2
        Pre-trib Rapture 1
        Pre-trib Rapture

        October 13, 2014 at 11:40 AM

  28. Kittii

    The important thing to remember, as stated previously, is that we are not appointed to wrath. He goes on to tell us we should comfort and edify one another.

    For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. II Peter 2:4-9 (NIV)

    Of all of the scriptures that I have found and researched, I believe this one brings home the point better and more direct than all of the others. Peter tells us that God judged the ungodly for their wickedness in the days of Noah, as well as on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah during the time of Abraham and Lot. In both cases, Peter mentions how God saves the righteous (Noah and his family, as well as Lot and his family) before pouring out his judgment on the ungodly. He then goes on to tell us that, “the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.” Peter then tells us not to worry about suffering the punishment reserved for the wicked because God will deliver the godly out of trials (emphasis mine).

    In many passages the believers are told they will be kept from or will be delivered out of God’s wrath appointed for the wicked. Scripture never once says that God will keep us “through” His wrath, it says “from” His wrath. That is a big difference. In the many scriptures that I have previously listed, there is an explanation of how God saves his Elect (ie: Noah & Lot and their families) by removing them from His wrath, and then pouring out His wrath on the wicked.

    September 2, 2014 at 11:02 AM

    • —– That ‘beechick’ study was truly awesome, Kitti!!… GREAT STUFF… I think there’s just a little bit of the ugly stain of ‘religion’ left in many who simply CANNOT GET IT into their heads that GOD’s work is a work of GRACE!!… Many folk just can’t accept that GOD will just ‘GIVE’, without any human ‘participation’, or even ‘justification’ for HIM taking on the action of redemption… It always has to be a ‘payoff’… I make NO accusations or subtle implications toward anyone, as I TOO am guilty of this (‘guilty as SIN’, pardon the pun…)
      —– I cannot please God by anything I do apart from obedient response to His Spirit’s gentle leading… I am stupid, willful and wayward as a sheep and HAPPY THAT WAY… Much safer… I NEED a shepherd!!!… I’ll get LOST otherwise… But even SHEEP have two EARS… BIG ones… And I suppose they are more’n sufficient to listen for a TRUMPET!!!
      —– I also don’t mean to accuse anyone of ‘religion’, but I DO believe it is a tendency inherent in ALL our ‘fallen natures’… Adam & Eve ran for the fig tree when they first saw they were naked, the first true act of ‘religion’ in human history… We’ve been doin’ it ever since… GRACE is God’s answer for this dilemma… Because it is a product of LOVE, and we aren’t very good at this, frankly… 6000 years of trying haven’t given any evidence of that… Nowadays we just kill in greater volume, with bigger weapons, on television, with glee… Cain must be laughing his arse off… Those who resist a pre-trib ‘rapture’ seem to want to cling to ‘one last shred’ of MAN’S ‘involvement’ in the proceeding… MAN MUST BE somehow ‘involved’ in it or GOD is somehow being ‘unfair’ to the ‘perfectly obedient’…
      —– You get saved, God enters into you, HE takes responsibility for you as His child… AND HE makes a few PROMISES… Which His Own Nature thus obligates Him NEVER TO REVOKE.. I think the marriage of the Lamb, and our subsequent invitation to the blessed event as honored guests is one of those promises… “If it were not so, I would have told you..”, He said to the wondering disciples… It would appear from their own writings years later that THEY finally understood, though we see in Peter’s case in particular that the ugly face of ‘religion’ STILL clouded HIS thinking from time-to-time… And he missed God.
      —– Eons before another man called Nimrod reigned over a kingdom, and sought by his own effort to reach, with all his subjects, all the way up into heaven… And he missed God..
      A man called Cain brought the fruit of his own labor, toiled over with great care, no doubt, and laid it all upon an altar… And he missed God… A horribly afflicted man’s three ‘friends’
      thought they might ‘comfort’ him by reminding him of just how ‘short’ he had fallen of being a proper servant to the deity… And they MISSED GOD… All because of ‘religion’…
      —– Let God love you and take gladly what He gives… He’s far too amazing for words… I know that, and with a wet corner in my eye I think of how displeasing I have been to Him.. Poor JOB wasn’t even GUILTY!!!… I have been… I can’t DO enough ‘good works’ to get any hope of notice compared to a guy like Job… I’m content to rest in HIS GRACE, and meet HIM in clean white linen prepared by the laundry with Heaven’s Address… And stay waaaay clear of ANY ‘fig trees’… Funny thing, it’s probably the ONLY wedding I’ll ever be involved in ‘as a principal’… BEEN ‘best man’ 4 times, groomsman twice, usher two more..
      I suppose that’ll do for this life… God bless y’all and keep looking up!!!

      October 20, 2014 at 11:44 AM

  29. Kittii

    I posted these links and videos over here. But I don’t want others to miss it. It relates to this post here.

    It’s 44 video clips long. Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It’s still awaiting moderation by Virginia

    Revelation: The Fuel Project Guide (Part 1 – We Have Tribulation)

    Revelation: The Fuel Project Guide (Part 2 – Tribulation Through The Ages)

    Revelation: The Fuel Project Guide (Part 3 – The Signs Of His Coming)

    September 22, 2014 at 4:51 PM

  30. Kittii

    I don’t agree with the Fuel Project’s view on the Pre-trib rapture. They call it a theory. It’s not it’s based on scripture.

    I like The Fuel Projects video series on “Know your enemy”.

    October 13, 2014 at 11:50 AM

  31. Kittii

    I hope these posts bless you. Get Well.

    Surprised? Not really right? There is a very probability on any given day or month or year that the Lord is coming down to the clouds to call us up. But….one day it will happen. Time is testing all of us. How many will not make it because they failed the test of time? What do you mean fail the test of time brother D, what do you mean not make it? What does the Word say?

    October 13, 2014 at 12:45 PM

    • Thank you for your blessings…I am already walking. In fact, I did 5 miles on my elliptical yesterday! Yeaaaa…

      October 13, 2014 at 1:17 PM

      • —– GOOD NEWS!!!… Great to hear that… Like I SAID a few times b’FORE, YOU ain’t goin’ NOPLACE but BACK TA THAT corn-pyooter o’your’n an’ poundin’ out some more TRUTH!!!… You wanna haveta answer to yer BRO???…. HMMMM????… YEEEHAAW!!

        October 20, 2014 at 10:33 AM

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